(One) Maelin wisps: Have you ever read the stuff on NAMBLA? It's a ridiculous oversimplification to say
that it isn't about love, borne of a desire to demonise paedophiles.
(One) Wallsy wisps: "Paedophilia and child rape are about love" is a statement analogous to
"heterosexuality and rap of people of the opposite sex are about love." What does it even mean?
(One) Aikanaro wisps: Rap is certainly never about love. :(
(One) Maelin wisps: You've negated it incorrectly.
(One) Kyrnin wisps: I have some rap love songs, Aikanaro...
(One) Maelin wisps: The statement I am criticising is "pedophilia and child rape are not about love"
which I infer to mean they are -never- about love
(One) Wallsy wisps: That is certainly untrue, Aikanaro. ;-P
(One) Wallsy wisps: Oh, sure, if you change "not" to "never" then it's false.
(One) Aikanaro wisps: That is impossible, Kyrnin. Rap is all about bling, and, and 'women of a certain
sort'.
(One) Sleffie wisps: Hoes?
(One) Sleffie wisps: Or bitches?
(One) Issac wisps: Pedophilia and child rape... how can that even be about love. It is unnatural.
(One) Sleffie wisps: That aside... in some cases, people can have a misguided sense of love.
(One) Wallsy wisps: "Unnatural" is a meaningless word, Issac.
(One) Maelin wisps: Don't bring nonsense "natural/unnatural" distinctions into this. Certainly love is
involved in many cases of pedophilia.
(One) Issac wisps: Rap is about bling, drugs, guns, whose got more balls and 'fine bitches'
(One) Wallsy wisps: And I think you'll find that there are plenty of rapists who loved the people they
raped.
(One) Ploosk wisps: Well
(One) Ploosk wisps: That is a mighty fine sentence :/
(One) Aikanaro wisps: Which one?
(One) Mumpfi wisps: ... define 'love'
(One) Aikanaro wisps: There are so many to choose from.
(One) Maelin wisps: Oh come on everyone knows what the emotion of love is.
(One) Aikanaro wisps: That is a lazy definition
(One) Issac wisps: So you are stating that Pedophilia is a natural thing?
(One) Mumpfi wisps: indeedy.
(One) Aikanaro wisps: I am ashamed of you.
(One) Maelin wisps: We're stating it's a nonsense question to ask, Issac.
(One) Slix wisps: pedophilia is quite natural, just look at nature and its rampant
(One) Ptapdance wisps: As Justice Stephens famously remarked of hardcore porn in a Supreme Court
judgment: "I can't define what it is, but I know it when I see it... and this is not it".
(One) Wallsy wisps: Mumpfi: love is the killer app, love is a rose, love is the salvation, love is a
dog from hell personals, love is colder than death. http://www.googlism.com/what_is/l/love/
(One) Mumpfi wisps: it says love is not abuse there.
(One) Kyrnin wisps: Great. Now I have to listen to /both/ rap and the White Stripes.
(One) Maelin wisps: Arguments are not soldiers. You don't line up as many as you can and hope they all
stay up. Pedophilia is socially unacceptable and frequently harmful to the younger person. Those are both
fair criticisms of it. But don't come up with every other negative description and hurl them at it to.
(One) Issac wisps: Well I hope if you have children and they get raped you are okay with it.
(One) Wallsy wisps: Love is a burning thing. It makes a fiery ring.
(One) Kyrnin wisps: Stop that, Wallsy. :(
(One) Maelin wisps: Okay, you're clearly not intellectually sophisticated enough for this argument. When
you learn to read what people say and not assume that because they disagree with you they stand for
everything that you don't, you can join in.
(One) Kyrnin wisps that he adds Cash to the list.
(One) Issac wisps: Or rather hopefully you will understand the rapist loved your child or whatever it
is you think.
(One) Kit wisps: wow... well put Maelin.
(One) Wallsy wisps: Issac, you seem to believe that love is necessarily a good thing. I'm not sure how
you reached that conclusion.
(One) Trogbert wisps: So, what we talking about?
(One) Aikanaro wisps: Rap.
(One) Trogbert wisps: Oh, I love rap!
(One) Maelin wisps: I am disagreeing with a statement by PZ Myers on his blog 'Pharyngula' in which he
states that pedophilia and child rape are not about love. Issac is assuming that because I think the
emotion of love can quite plausibly be involved in pedophilia, that I therefore am in favour of child
rape.
(One) Issac wisps: All I said is hopefully the person understands the rapist or pedophiliac. As for me
I have a one year old and another baby in the way and I do not think I would take lightly someone doing
'these natural' things to any of my children
(One) Maelin wisps: See you are making totally unwarranted assumptions. I never said that it was natural,
I said calling it "natural" or "unnatural" is meaningless. I never said I would "take lightly" to it.
(One) Slix wisps: neither 'natural' or 'love' suggest beneficial or good intentions
(One) Trogbert wisps: I'd make a great rapper.. I've always wanted to join N-Dubz..
(One) Issac wisps: I made no statement of that kind.
(One) Felo wisps: where is the spa in the assassin guild in AM?
(One) Caphulus wisps: Ask an assassin :)
(One) Maelin wisps: I never said I'm in favour of it occurring as you continue to imply. I'm just -not-
in favour of attributing to it bad properties it doesn't warrant.
(One) Trogbert wisps: "natural" doesn't suggest anything else but "natural"
(One) Wallsy wisps: Trogbert: "Natural" doesn't mean anything at all. It's a nonsense word.
(One) Aikanaro wisps: You said '(One) Issac wisps: Well I hope if you have children and they get raped
you are okay with it.'
(One) Mumpfi wisps: strangely enough: I'm completely agreeing with Wallsy.
(One) Aikanaro wisps: I mean, it's true you didn't say 'Maelin, you are clearly okay with child rape'.
But if that wasn't what you meant to imply then the question comes out of nowhere and doesn't really
mean anything.
(One) Zexium wisps: felo, from outside the guild gates, go as far south as you can, then 1 north, then
west
(One) Issac wisps: But as a father In MY case and MY CASE only I would not take that lightly. If anyone
else wants to that IS there problem. It is the same philosophy I have of Homosexuality IF it makes them
happy good for them but
(One) Ploosk wisps: Go on
(One) Issac wisps: It isn't my thing.
(One) Trogbert wisps: Also, felo, make sure the tub isn't filled with tea..
(One) Zexium wisps: do not attempt to grope, kiss, cuddle, hug, fondle or otherwise molest the attendant
in any way unless you want to risk swift pointy death
(One) Keita wisps that he plants a big smooch on Ploosk.
(One) Keita wisps: I love you, Ploosk.
(One) Koschei wisps: Fondle who?
(One) Ploosk wisps: D:
(One) Memnon wisps: whom
(One) Zexium wisps: ploosk, koschei
(One) Zexium wisps: a la keita
(One) Wallsy wisps: Woah, did you just eqate paedophilia and homosexuality, Issac? Because that is just
taking the whole stupidity thing you've got going to the next level.
(One) Koschei wisps that he gropes Ploosk.
(One) Aikanaro wisps: I was typing out a similar sentence, Wallsy, but I thought it would make the
conversation worse if anything. :(
(One) Keita wisps that he eyes Aikanaro.
(One) Aphaea wisps: I *think* he equated not taking pedophilia seriously for his definition of serious
and homosexuality
(One) Keita wisps that he sidles up to Aikanaro.
(One) Aikanaro wisps: Also I think he just meant that the tolerance of homosexuality is the same thin-
yeah. Which has some implications that aaaa get away get away
(One) Issac wisps: So my statement is, so others will not put words for me, to me pedophilia is
unnatursl and wrong but if someone else believes it is cool then good for them. If they engage in it
that is their business not mine.
(One) Aikanaro wisps that he flails at Keita.
(One) Maelin wisps: Wow. You have jumped right over my view into the other side.
(One) Wallsy wisps: Hahaha, awesome, you're actually saying that you're OK with people having sex with
children and it's just a personal choice?
(One) Zexium wisps: so ..... if a paedophile rapes your kids issac, that's their business and you don't
give a damn?
(One) Aikanaro wisps: Presumably his children would count as his business, though.
(One) Aikanaro wisps: I'm not sure how it would work out if his child turned out to be gay. :/
(One) ViRE wisps: Prostitution?
(One) Mumpfi wisps: well the children's personal choice doesn't...what aikanaro said.
(One) Keita wisps: I was just about to say that, Aikanaro. :(
(One) Aikanaro wisps: There is a lot of that going around, Keita. :(
(One) Aikanaro wisps: I blame the HIVEMIND
(One) Issac wisps: No I did not equate one thing or the other. I said I do not like either of them but
if someone wants to engage in it that is their business. And I have had homosexual friends males and
females it does not trouble me at all. I do not like it means I wouldn't engage in it because to me
it is unnatural. if for someone else it is natural good for them. Did you get it now?
(One) ViRE wisps: Chivemind Aikanaro, it's delicious
(One) Trogbert wisps: I blame the HIVEMIND
(One) Maelin wisps: Okay I'm bowing out of this :P
(One) Aphaea wisps: Issac, can you say what you mean without using the word "natural"?
(One) Wallsy wisps: My guess is "no", Aphaea.
(One) Slix wisps: heh, could be replaced with 'what god intended' possibly? :P
(One) Maelin wisps: He seems to be using "natural" as a synonym for "acceptable"
(One) Keita wisps: I'm apparently going to hell because I ate the wafer and wasn't saved. :(
(One) Keita wisps: Or something.
(One) Issac wisps: I said to ME and only ME it is not natural. That does not mean that to YOU it is
unnatural.
(One) Aikanaro wisps: It's more that you put paedophilia and homosexuality on an equal footing there
that people have trouble with.
(One) Aphaea wisps: I just want to see if he can explain what he thinks without using the word
"natural"
(One) Koschei wisps: Who'd you just suggest was a pederast?
(One) Aphaea wisps: Since he seems to be using it as a thought-terminating cliche
(One) Aikanaro wisps: Yeah, but maybe he means 'I do not want to have sex with men or children, so
for me homosexuality and paedophilia are both perfectly okay but not something I'd do'.
(One) Issac wisps: No I am using natural as what I would define doing. TO ME and ONLY ME I do not
find myself that being with a child is natural. To me what is natural is to be with a woman. To my
female friend for her it is natural to be with a woman.
(One) Aikanaro wisps: Which is still disturbing.
(One) Maelin wisps: Either explain what you mean by "natural" or stop using the word.
(One) Aikanaro wisps: Because there seems to be no actual moral opposition to paedophilia anywhere
in there.
(One) Caphulus wisps: I can haz dragon!
(One) Keita wisps: This is going out on a limb and being kind of trollish, but...
(One) Keita wisps: How do you know it's not natural to be with a child if...
(One) Keita wisps: Well, you know?
(One) Wallsy wisps: I'd just like to take a moment here, if I may, to point out that the word
"pederast" does not mean what most people seem to think. Pederasty is specifically sexual relations
between men and boys. Sexual molestation of children is not necessarily pederasty. Thank you for
your attention.
(One) Ploosk wisps: Man, pedant :p
(One) Aikanaro wisps: pedantphile
(One) Keita wisps: Well, I'm just trying to understand what he's saying and meaning!
(One) Ploosk wisps: Pedalophile
(One) Ploosk wisps: Those poor little pedalboats :(
(One) Maelin wisps: Oh, is that what it is? I thought it was a kind of brace for physio purposes.
(One) Issac wisps: How can you define a word that can be a different thing for someone else? Are
you being an idiot on purpose? I already said to me what is natural for me to do is be with a woman
but my lesbian frie d for her what is natural for her is be with a woman. Carajo natural de natural pu
(One) Aikanaro wisps: I note that my point is not being responded to. :(
(One) Maelin wisps: Okay show's over, folks.
(One) Maelin wisps: We are all being idiots by asking someone to explain what they mean by a word.
(One) Maelin wisps: Shame on all of us :(
(One) Wallsy wisps: You seem confused again, Issac. The question is, when you say "natural", what
meaning do you intend to convey by that word? In general, not in a specific example. What does the
word itself mean?
(One) Maelin wisps: Wallsy stop being an idiot. It means the thing that being with a woman is for
Issac but being with a woman is for his lesbian friend, and that being with a child might be for some
people but not for Issac.
(One) Maelin wisps: That's what it means >:-(
(One) Wallsy wisps: I don't actually want or expect an answer, Maelin.
(One) Maelin wisps: How many times does he have to keep saying that before you will miraculously absorb
his meaning through the power of your mind?
(One) Asha wisps: if you don't want an answer why ask a question?
(One) Trogbert wisps: I saw we beat the answer into him Maelin!
(One) Trogbert wisps: I'll hold him down..
(One) Ruse wisps that he withholds an answer from Asha
(One) Wallsy wisps: Oh, I was just clarifying the question on behalf of those who asked it.
(One) Issac wisps: Holy Shit... Is it natural for you to sleep? Is it natural for you to have sex?
Is it natural for you to have sex with a man? Mayhaps a woman? A child perhaps?
(One) Maelin wisps: How should we know? We don't know what you mean by "natural". That's what we keep
asking.
(One) Mumpfi wisps: i think. he means: feels comfortable for an individual.
(One) Wallsy wisps: But to answer the question, natural is to pay more than $100 million in early
termination fees, natural is masturbation, natural is greener than organic, natural is not intended
to protect against any chemicals or irritants other than dirt and grime, natural is a flavor.
(One) Wallsy wisps: http://www.googlism.com/what_is/n/natural/
(One) Felo wisps: how do i remove aliases?